Andrenidae

Andrenidae
Andrena cf. cineraria

comments (13)

Vodkaman

Lion

This looks like a male Andrena cineraria. It is the right time of the year, when they mate and then die.

Dave Posted 9 years ago
1. RMFelix
  
  Lion
  
  Great! There are some records described for Portugal http://www.atlashymenoptera.net/page.asp?id=243 in-between 1950-1990, but our database www.naturdata.com doesn't mention it... Do you know of any key for Andrenidae? cheers* Posted 9 years ago, modified 9 years ago
2. 1. Vodkaman
    
    Lion
    
    I didn't wade through all the scientific journal sites. But all the fairly respectable sites seem very conclusive on this. A common bee with a European distribution. Your best bet for a reliable assessment is the UK sites. They take their bugging quite seriously compared with other countries.
    
    The best write-up came from a private site, but that is not what I would call a respectable site, not without checking with other references.
    http://www.edphillipswildlife.com/the-ashy-mining-bee-andrena
    
    Dave Posted 9 years ago
  2. 1. RMFelix
      
      Lion
      
      Thank you so much, Dave! I've checked it.
      I'll post another shot from another angle, although I think this is the best angle that I have, to see if you can reach to some more conclusions.
      Cheers Posted 9 years ago, modified 9 years ago

WildFlower

Lion

As the name suggests, Andrena flavipes has yellow hairs on the legs and body so I don't think it is a good match.
http://www.atlashymenoptera.net/galerie/photo.aspx?ID=871
http://www.galerie-insecte.org/galerie/Fam_Andrenidae_02.html

This one has white or grey hairs and it is probably a male because females have larger abdomens. Whether it is Andrena cineraria or not, it is hard to tell, considering the number of similar species there are.
I see some differences compared to the references, but I don't know if they are significant. It is less hairy and I don't see the white hairs on the legs that are visible on the others.
http://www.biolib.cz/en/taxonimage/id154262/?taxonid=70455&type=1&termflt=3546
http://www.bwars.com/bee/andrenidae/andrena-cineraria
http://www.galerie-insecte.org/galerie/Fam_Andrenidae_01.html
http://www.galerie-insecte.org/galerie/view.php?adr=image%2Fdos67%2Ftemp%2F110323_061.jpg
http://www.naturespot.org.uk/species/grey-mining-bee Posted 9 years ago, modified 9 years ago
1. RMFelix
  
  Lion
  
  Yep, you are right on A. flavipes, I thought the same. I've also checked your links list searching for a match, and the question about A. cineraria is also the same for me. I believe I've read somewhere that hair leg patterns are also distinctive characters in Apidae, given also by the fact that it presents much more less hair (white bands) than the referenced ones on the web. I guess it will still remain to be confirmed, too. Thanks a lot, wildflower! Cheers* Posted 9 years ago, modified 9 years ago
2. 1. Vodkaman
    
    Lion
    
    The most important thing, is not to post a wrong ID. I agree, there is enough doubt to be of concern. If you don't manage to satisfy all the criteria, then it is best to settle for genus sp. Maybe come back to it in the future.
    Certainly get more shots, as many as you can. If you don't want to post them up, you can email me because I am hooked into this one, and want to be involved.
    
    Dave Posted 9 years ago

Vodkaman

Lion

I have looked at the new image, but will continue the discussion here.

First, male or female - the rear leg does not have the pollen carrying bulge - male
There is only one band of white hairs across the thorax - male
The antennae have 12 segments - male
The facial hair thing is not conclusive from the images.
I pulled wings off, rotated and mirrored, so both (biolib) could be viewed side by side. Difficult to see all the veins, as there are crease forms in there also, but everything matched up with cineraria for me.

Bicolorata looks close, but the images were not good. Also, at the same genus, all the wing venations could be the same. The PESI distribution map shows that bicolorata stops exactly at the Portuguese border, which is just silly.

Dave Posted 9 years ago
1. RMFelix
  
  Lion
  
  ;) Thank you! Here there are some A. bicolorata records for the PT territory, check this: http://www.atlashymenoptera.net/page.asp?ID=243&search=andrena%20bicolorata&marked=5433#anc_5433, although i'm also inclined to A.cineraria too. Posted 9 years ago
2. 1. Vodkaman
    
    Lion
    
    OMG! so many :)
    
    Dave Posted 9 years ago
  2. 1. RMFelix
      
      Lion
      
      eheh :)) Look for the map of Andrena bicolorata, by alphabetic order ;) Posted 9 years ago
    2. 1. Vodkaman
        
        Lion
        
        The hairs are slightly brown. This is putting me off.
        
        DAve Posted 9 years ago

Vodkaman

Lion

I went through the 'Atlas' link, checked images for those that showed in Portugal. Nothing changed my mind. It is up to you and the others now.

Dave Posted 9 years ago

No species identified

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By RMFelix

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