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Panorpa amurensis Snapshots of specimen in the collection of the Naturalis Biodiversity Center (Leiden, Netherlands)<br />
You can use these freely, but need to credit Naturalis for making the collection available, hence licensed as CC-BY (Attribution)<br />
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Note: The image is taken in the Netherlands, but the species natural range is the Russian far East and Korea Mecoptera,Naturalis Biodiversity Center,Panorpa,Panorpa amurensis,Panorpidae Click/tap to enlarge Species introCountry intro

Panorpa amurensis

Snapshots of specimen in the collection of the Naturalis Biodiversity Center (Leiden, Netherlands)
You can use these freely, but need to credit Naturalis for making the collection available, hence licensed as CC-BY (Attribution)

Note: The image is taken in the Netherlands, but the species natural range is the Russian far East and Korea

    comments (9)

  1. Thanks for sharing these, Arp!
    Was the photo taken in the Netherlands or in Russia?
    Posted 4 years ago
    1. Somehow the photo was tagged Netherlands but the species is from the Russian far east and Korea - at least one of the specimen is from Russia. I could not "erase" the country, so I decided to make it Russia instead.
      P.S. The photo was taken in the Netherlands of course - at Naturalis, but I don't feel that is relevant, or is it to you?
      Posted 4 years ago, modified 4 years ago
      1. Sorry, but yes it is relevant. "Country" in JD simply means where the photo was taken. Think of it as the country of the photo, not the country of the species (which is a far more complicated concept). Posted 4 years ago
        1. Hmmm, so if someone sends me a (life) specimen from say Italy and I take some photographs you would rather have me geotag it with my home than with the actual place where the specimen was found. That sort of undermines the concept of "first image for species X in country Y" - or at least as I've been interpreting this concept.
          If that is what you want I have some bookkeeping to do and change things, but to me it seems rather silly to flag animals for a country where the species has never been found ... in such cases I would rather not set a country at all, as to not confuse casual visitors about the occurrence of species in unexpected places, but I could not find a way to erase the country once set (leaving the drop down country selection list at "Select" and then save it, did not "unset" the country if I remember correctly?)
          Posted 4 years ago
          1. You should see it as much simpler, Arp: an observation is photo + what (species) + when (date) + where (location). It describes the location of the observation and thus the photo. We're on the photo page here, not on the species page.

            Note that this is exactly the same on any other major observation platform: inaturalist, projectnoah, bugguide, waarneming.nl, pretty much any site I know in this area, so I would not find it silly or strange, rather the only logical option.

            Country of origin of the species would be extremely confusing. Which of multiple countries? What if the species is extinct now? Is the subject actually from there, or only occurring there? Was it born in country A yet then collected in country B and then sent to country C? Which of those should I pick? Should I use the geotag taken from my camera, or override this for every photo based on fuzzy logic?

            Country would become impossibly vague, and again, no platform uses it that way. It just means where you took the photo, that is all. Therefore, there's no reason to unset country on any photos (mixed collages are an exception). It should be seen as a field that is always to be filled out, because you typically know in which country you took the photo.

            I do agree with you that it would be useful for observations to have some flags (wild, zoo, etc) so that at country level you can filter for naturally occurring species. Yet we don't have these flags, and the big problem is maintaining all that data, it's already quite a struggle to get observations basics up to a healthy data quality, it costs me multiple hours every single day.

            Sorry of this wasn't clear before, Arp!
            Posted 4 years ago
            1. Hi Ferdy, I have no intention of making this an "issue" so if this is how you want it, than that's fine by me(!)
              But just for the record: I don't agree with your analysis above. Yes, it is technically easier and more straight forward to take the location from the camera and stick with that, and for most practical purposes that is also exactly what is right (life shots in situ), but this is not what sites like waarneming or project Noah try to do/achieve. The purpose of these sites is to document biodiversity as observed in the real world and not in a Dutch photo studio.
              If I catch an animal in Spain, take it home and photograph it, I'm darn well supposed to enter the record with the coordinates/country where I caught the critter (Spain) and use the (Dutch) photograph as "proof" for identification.
              So only if I do "strange" things, such as kidnapping animals/plants and photographing them elsewhere , indeed I'm supposed to go through the trouble of "correcting" the camera's GPS location by hand and set the location back to where the species was truly observed.
              But that's just for the record :o)
              I'll go and set quite a few pictures to a different country (but not today).
              Cheers, Arp
              Posted 4 years ago
              1. It's not an issue, it's an explanation :) I'd say 95-99% of photo on here are of live specimens, whether they be in zoos, gardens, or the wild.

                So the issue we're discussing is the exception, not the norm. I do think you raise a good point that there are situations in that 1% area where the country is debatable. I'd say even in that case country where the photo was taken is the simplest solution, for the sake of consistency. However, in the case of a dead specimen that crossed borders, I'm not against setting it to the original country if you feel strongly about it.

                Sorry, I'm simple minded :) I like simplicity and clarity, it shouldn't become a question per photo what 'country' means.
                Posted 4 years ago
                1. You mentioned photo page versus species page, making a point for "where the photo is taken". Yesterday I changed a few of my photos to "Netherlands" so now we have this species page:
                  The two photos are of specimen from France and Germany, but to me the species page now seems to "suggest" to the casual observer that the species is native to the Netherlands, where it has never been found (yet).
                  Strictly speaking the caption reads "Photographed in", so it is still correct of course, but somehow it just doesn't feel quite right to me....
                  Well, 'nough said :o) I can live with your concept of "photographed in" - just explaining why it seemed logical to me at first to interpret it as "location where the specimen was found".
                  And you're right of course: This concerns _way_ under 1% of the photos/species displayed on JD, so nothing to get all exited about ;o)
                  Posted 4 years ago, modified 4 years ago
                  1. "Occuring in" would be more useful, but we don't have that data. So this is similar to photographing a lion in a zoo in the Netherlands :)

                    By the way, you can still describe in the description field where the specimen was taken from.
                    Posted 4 years ago

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Panorpa amurensis is a species of Scorpionfly (Mecoptera: Panorpidae) from the Russian far east and Korea.

Similar species: Scorpionflies And Allies
Species identified by Pudding4brains
View Pudding4brains's profile

By Pudding4brains

Uploaded Jul 8, 2018.